D*A*M Forum

You clever lot might know:

Why do some of my fuzzes at low volumes seem to just meet “unity gain” when running a master volume amp clean (no preamp overdrive) but when I clip the preamp they sound huge and the whole rig takes on a monster sound?

What is the technical reason?

Bigfoot2000 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 12, 2020 7:43 pm You clever lot might know:

Why do some of my fuzzes at low volumes seem to just meet “unity gain” when running a master volume amp clean (no preamp overdrive) but when I clip the preamp they sound huge and the whole rig takes on a monster sound?

What is the technical reason?

Do the Level control characteristics change in the clipped scenario, i.e. does the struggle to hit or exceed unity change when the preamp is clipped? I only ask because hearing is one of those subjective things and what we are "hearing" as opposed to what is happening can be tricky.

Your device pushing a clean amp may be like trying to push a ton of water uphill but using it to hit a dirty amp would be like a raging river on the downhill slope, i.e. it more readily "gives up the goods" when its not trying to create all the dirt by itself.

Not a very technical answer but...

Lots of fuzzes have an output below unity gain. On a totally clean amp you will hear a volume drop or it will seem like the same volume due to the increased harmonic content of the sound. When you crank the amp to the point where it distorts, your sound is compressed. This means that the extra harmonic content of the fuzz will often give a perceived increase in volume.
This is why fuzzes can sound totally different from amp to amp. The way the gain structure interacts will vary a lot.

I hope this makes sense and is helpful

Thanks Jim. Helpful but I’m still confused

I’m sure lots of people have bought and sold a fuzz because it doesn’t sound great into their amp, but someone else with a different rig would think it’s the best sounding fuzz in the world.

I can think of some that don’t sound all that great into my clean fender amp, for example fuzz faces, Super Bee, BUM Fuzz, some Mk2 fuzzes (I’ve tried Pigdogs that don’t do it but the Sola Hybrid is an exception and I’m sure there are others), but when I crank the volume or put them in front of my Marshall JCM800 with all the knobs on 12 o’clock they sound absolutely fucking killer.

Mk1 Tonebenders always seem to sound great though.

I guess it’s all about trying things out and changing your rig about to get the tone you’re after, lots of trial and error and no fuzz is really a bad fuzz, they all have their uses.

Yeah it’s quite odd. I’ve known tons of people who haven’t taken to fuzz pedals. Mainly due to them not knowing how to use them. You’d think that most varieties ie fuzz face and Tonebender types would be fairly easy to dial in with two knobs but I find they’re very gear dependant to get the best out of them.
I had a great sweet sound Monterey fuzz I let go years ago because it barely reached unity gain.
Shame because I’m sure a slight adjustment or different amp could have sorted that out

I always find that unity gain on fuzz is more than often effected by pickup output. Even medium output pickups I always tend to roll the volume back a click or two

Doc Holliday wrote: ↑Sat Nov 14, 2020 12:06 pm Yeah it’s quite odd. I’ve known tons of people who haven’t taken to fuzz pedals. Mainly due to them not knowing how to use them. You’d think that most varieties ie fuzz face and Tonebender types would be fairly easy to dial in with two knobs but I find they’re very gear dependant to get the best out of them.
I had a great sweet sound Monterey fuzz I let go years ago because it barely reached unity gain.
Shame because I’m sure a slight adjustment or different amp could have sorted that out

I recently ran into an issue where I had ordered a transistor set from Small Bear Electronics for a MKII Tonebender style pedal. Wired it up and once surprised at the lack of the "rip your face off" treble response I was getting. Turns out they ship resistors for a bias point of 4.5 VDC on Q3c. After some chatter back and forth with Electric Warrior, I bumped up the Q1c voltage to 7.74 and I was blown away with how good it sounded.

So not only is it equipment dependent, but also bias dependent. So you could see how someone who is just looking to plug and chug might not get along with one if not set right.